Hey all, Matt Flegenheimer here at Franklin Field for Penn's season opener tonight against No. 2 Villanova. Stay with the Buzz for live game updates on all the action...
Tags: Cover it Live, Football, Game Updates
The Buzz
The Buzz is the sports blog of The Daily Pennsylvanian.
If you have any questions, concerns or suggestions, please e-mail them to Daily Pennsylvanian Senior Sports Editor Michael Gold
Twitter updates
- No public Twitter messages.
RSS Feed
An RSS feed of The Buzz is available here.
DP Blogroll
Tags
al bagnoli andreas schreiber aron cohen awards Baseball basketball Big 5 brian grandieri Brown columbia cornell drexel Football Game Updates glen miller harrison gaines harvard injuries Ivy League Jerome Allen justin reilly kevin egee la salle live game updates M. Hoops Mark DeRosa marketing Men's Basketball men's soccer ncaa tournament penn basketball princeton random Ivy notes Recruiting schedules Schuylkill 16 St. Joe's temple tyler bernardini villanova W. Lax W. Lax Wrestling yale Zack Rosen-
Recent Posts
Categories
College Sports
Ivy League Newspapers
Local College Newspapers
National Sports
Phila. Sports
The Sports Pages
Archives
- March 2010
- February 2010
- January 2010
- December 2009
- November 2009
- October 2009
- September 2009
- August 2009
- July 2009
- June 2009
- May 2009
- April 2009
- March 2009
- February 2009
- January 2009
- December 2008
- November 2008
- October 2008
- September 2008
- August 2008
- July 2008
- May 2008
- April 2008
- March 2008
- February 2008
- January 2008
- December 2007
- November 2007
- October 2007
- September 2007
- August 2007
- July 2007
- June 2007
- May 2007
- April 2007
- March 2007
- February 2007
- January 2007
- December 2006
- November 2006
- October 2006
- September 2006
- August 2006
- July 2006
- June 2006
- May 2006
- April 2006
- March 2006
- February 2006
- January 2006
The Buzz is proudly powered by
WordPress
Entries (RSS)
and Comments (RSS).
September 19th, 2009 at 9:39 pm
Thumbs down on all fronts for the game tonight
1) Team outplayed and outclassed by a better, stronger team
2) I was unimpressed with the line play. Maybe this is a bit too
crtiical, but our men were pushed around
3) Franklin Field looked like Siberia. Empty swaths of section after
section on a gorgeous fall night. Curious how AD Bilsky will
fudge the attendance to make it look like that more people
were at FF this evening. Whatever the # is - it will be a flat-out
lie and an insult to anyone who cares about the future of the
football program.
4) Student interest seems low.
5) No Tannenwald blog
All in all, another forgetable night of Penn Athletics which is par
for the course in recent seasons
September 19th, 2009 at 9:55 pm
As per the DP Twitter post "14,876 in attendance tonight"
I give the DP staff credit for posting this figure in a timely fashion.
I also think this figure is a total fabrication right from the mouth
of Bilsky.
I find this # extremely hard to believe.
I urge the DP Sports team -- Zach/Noah/David(Ben and others to press
the AD, the marketing lead Felici, and the ticket office to JUSTIFY this
inflated overstated attendance figure of 14,876.
SHAME ON BILSKY AND HIS STOOGES FOR LYING ABOUT ATTENDANCE
JUST TO FEED HIS OWN EGO.
September 19th, 2009 at 10:56 pm
I have to disagree FOJL. The truth of the matter is that Penn is never going to fill Franklin Field again. So I'm used to it being empty. However, relatively speaking, tonight looked very filled (again, this is most definitely a relative thing). Pretty much the entire student sections were completely filled, and the chairbacks seemed to be at about 3/4 capacity. There also was a decent amount of people on the second tier on Penn's side. Meanwhile, Villanova fans brought a large contingent.
So all and all I really do think there were 14,876 people there.
At the same time, you're right that attendance numbers at Penn get fudged.
http://www.dailypennsylvanian.com/news/2009/01/28/Sports/Flegenheimer.Making.It.Count.At.The.Palestra-3600082.shtml
September 19th, 2009 at 11:24 pm
Zach - Are you drinking the Bilsky koolaid? Back in the day, both decks of the student sections were filled from the 40 yd line all the way to the end to the end of the FF towards 33d Street. I can assure that there were not 14876 paid attendees there tonight. The pictures do not lie.
I challenge you and your colleagues of fine men (as well as some adorable and sports-minded ladies, based on the picks in the friday issue) to address this blatant set of lies and misinformation as stated by Bilsky and his staff. Pursue the truth, Zach!
September 20th, 2009 at 3:32 am
Back in the day meaning 1957? FOJL, I want you to find me the most recent box score that has attendance figures above 26,000, which is roughly half the capacity of Franklin Field. (Hint, it's not within the last six years.) The truth is that they haven't drawn those kind of crowds in years.
Meanwhile, the largest crowd I've seen during my three years and one game was against Villanova in 06 when there was about 22,000 people there. To be honest my memory of that game isn't crystal clear now, but I don't recall there being more than 8,000 more people at that game than this one. Even if you assume that the 22,000 figure was inflated, this crowd didn't even seem 6,000 fewer. So somehow I doubt that there were less than 14,000 people there tonight.
I'm curious as to how many people you thought were there? Five thousand? Ten? You say "the pictures don't lie." Does that mean you weren't even at the game tonight? Because you really can't get a good sense of the crowd if you're just watching on TV.
I think this is just one of those cases where you're automatically going to think Bilsky is out to distort the truth to his favor.
September 20th, 2009 at 8:42 am
Please find out the # of sold tickets. There were plenty of open swaths
of seats on both sides from what cameras showed. End zone looked
like empty too.
Without saying it, you are saying it --- the student interest is virtually non-existent and the local alumns do not care. I saw an Ad for $25 seats for all games for young alumns, Follows up and see how many of these subscriptions were sold.
Worse is the admission that Nova is respsonsible for a good share of the crowd. Take their fans away and it gets worse.
I repeat - I would be shocked if that was the paid attendance last night.
Find it very hard to believe.
September 20th, 2009 at 8:58 am
Zach -
Even 14,000 is a poor showing from a marketing sense. I'll admit it's been that way for a while, but turnout is a function of lots of things, not simply Penn's broadly defined Philadelphia and surroundings community apathy. If I'm not mistaken, Yale averages around 20,000 and fills the Bowl for The Game.
In fairness, marketing is a chronic problem, not limited to Penn sports. Recently I read about the Museum - once one of a handful of archeological leaders (perhaps still is) - wanting to become a "destination." Great, but why wasn't this thought of 50 years ago?
Ultimately we harvest what we sow, and no clever multi color brochures will induce turnout. Certainly successful performance is a factor, but there has to be a firm commitment and sustained effort by Penn's management. I see modest commitment at best, executed in fits and starts. JGH - the self-proclaimed he of the multi-generational Penn family, knowing more about Penn sports (and Princeton as well) than us, marketing expert, and official or unofficial funnel for the sports department's status quo defeatism - has assured us marketing is a tough job, and our suggestions amounted to small potatoes.
My constructive suggestions begin with regime change! Nothing personal, but defeat seems to be an accepted modus operendi here, and nothing will be fixed with another brochure proclaiming Penn Pride of Penn Spirit.
Why not hand this issue as a project to Wharton's marketing dept. and have both grads and under grads come up with long-term solutions for targeting attendance of 35,000, at FF and 7,000 at the Palestra? Penn itself should market itself as a destination, and filling FF and the Palestra, even with high schoolers, veterans groups, retirees etc., who could also enjoy other campus activities and events, I'm willing to bet that Wharton could accomplish what the Administration and Athletic Department so far haven't. And Can't!
EN
September 20th, 2009 at 3:30 pm
Zach
More misinformation posted by these same two on this blog.
One guy thinks he can judge the size of the crowd from TV shots. That's a laugh.
The other guy is clueless about just about everything that pertains to Penn sports. For anyone interested in looking at actual FCS attendance figures you can check out http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/2008/Internet/attendance/FCS_AVGATTENDANCE.pdf.
Yale and Harvard alternate top position each year among the 8 Ivies based upon which school hosts The Game. The bowl is much larger than Harvard Stadium so they get the bigger boost when it's in New Haven like in 2008. But for The Game, Penn performs pretty well relative to it's Ivy counterparts, year in and year out.
Still - FCS and Ivy football attendance in general is a problem across the board with the exception of the Yale/Harvard game.
But for the Jewish holiday the crowd probably would have been closer to the 22,000 that attended the last time these two teams met at Franklin Field at night.
September 20th, 2009 at 4:39 pm
Actually Yale had The Game in 2007 when they had the 4th best attendance in FCS. Harvard had it last year and only Harvard finished ahead of Penn among Ivies in per game attendance. Yale finished slightly behind us.
September 20th, 2009 at 6:24 pm
I'd just like to clarify I wasn't implying 14,000 is a great target turnout to aim for, but that I believe that was an accurate number for last night's attendance.
September 20th, 2009 at 7:03 pm
Zach - Could you or one of your colleagues please investigate the
attendance issue with someone in the AD's office?
Put Felici on the spot. Hold him accountable. Also, check with Dave Bryan and Gustkey. They should be able to give you a #.
Further, I would also encourage you to contact Villanova and see how many
tickets THEY sold to the game.
I maintain that 14K is a lie.
I do agree with the notion that 14K is not a target # to shoot for.
Ernie brings up some well thought of points in his comments from earlier.
September 20th, 2009 at 11:18 pm
FOJL et al,
I was not at the game and did not see it on television, but in this case, how can you not defer to the judgment of the writer sitting in the press box at the top of Franklin Field with a full view of the stadium? That's not to say attendance numbers haven't been fudged before, but 14 K seems reasonable for a Villanova game -- Villanova fans have always traveled well when playing Penn on the gridiron.
The real issue here that no one has touched on is that the attendance could have been better if the game had not been scheduled at home on Rosh Hashanah, when so many of Penn's Jewish students (who constitute a sizable percentage of the student body) were home or off campus for the weekend. The evening start was a thoughtful accommodation, but it's still not ideal for attendance in general to have the home opener on a Jewish holiday.
I don't know how much could have potentially been done to avoid this from happening -- Penn and Villanova have had an agreement in place to play each other every season since 2004, and I know that the locations were set back when the schools reached that agreement. There isn't a lot of wiggle room either, especially since both teams are limited by their conference scheduling obligations. However, it seems like it would have been better for Penn if it could have opened this season at Lafayette and then played the Villanova home game next Saturday afternoon, before students start heading home Sunday for Yom Kippur. It might not have been possible to schedule the games like that, making this situation unavoidable. But Penn should keep this in mind when going forward when scheduling games.
It's really important for the Athletic Department to hook the freshmen while it still can -- the future of attendance at sporting events really depends on them (and the success of Penn's teams, of course).
September 20th, 2009 at 11:36 pm
I should qualify the above comment by saying there are certainly many other valid issues at play that have been touched on, and that the attendance boost in terms of sheer numbers wouldn't have been enormous had the game been scheduled for a different day. To move numbers from 14K to 20K or higher requires sweeping changes in both internal and external forces, to be sure. I was just pointing out small factor that seemed to have gotten lost in the discussion.
September 21st, 2009 at 1:44 am
Nice to see you back on the Buzz Mr. Todres
September 21st, 2009 at 8:16 am
Andrew -Thank you for your contributions. Your comments about Jewish holidays do pose an interesting sidebar.
Need you to clarify this: "However, it seems like it would have been better for Penn if it could have opened this season at Lafayette and then played the Villanova home game next Saturday afternoon, before students start heading home Sunday for Yom Kippur"
Are you saying that nobody celebrates RH at Lafayette? Or are you saying because Penn has become so Jewish in recent years, this home game should have been moved to an away location (such as Lafayette) with a perceived smaller Jewish population?
How do other schools, with large Jewish populations, deal with this?
FOJL
September 21st, 2009 at 10:29 am
Mr. Todres -
Happy to 2nd Noah's welcome back and comments - hope it's prelude to more posts.
Also 2nd your observation on the need to get the Freshman early, but nothing personal, the current athletic administration has demonstrated little ability to get this sort of thing done. Moreover, based on what funnels out, they sound tired. The lack of positive energy to pursue new avenues to fill seats at FF and Palestra is unacceptable.
Here's a thought: the NY Knicks have been among the lower tier of professional BB. Yet attendance at the Garden remains high. Last season we attended a game, and the best description of it was a multi faceted event, during which basketball was occasionally dispersed.
So it's up to the administration to offer some value to attract beyond the student body people from Philadelphia, the suburbs, and the greater Delaware Valley, at a time when people are particularly value conscious. I would love to be encouraged that the administration has the willingness and energy to think outside the box, and speak in their own names, rather than through intermediaries.
Again, welcome back.
EN
September 21st, 2009 at 10:40 am
I agree w/ Ernie. Bilsky and Felici and the other alleged "experts" need
to do more to add value to the overall experience of Penn Athletics.
So far, the efforts to reach out to the young alumni and to current
students seems to be inconsequential.
I have seen little from Felici to prove that the Nelligan contract has
been worth the investment to our institution.
September 21st, 2009 at 6:19 pm
Was Coach Lake at the 'Nova game? I didn't see him on the sidelines.
September 21st, 2009 at 6:37 pm
If this were true, that would be quite unfortunate.
He is one kooky guy but a true gem. All the kids love to play for him
FOJL
September 21st, 2009 at 7:40 pm
Nice piece from the archives about Coach Lake
http://media.www.dailypennsylvanian.com/media/storage/paper882/news/1999/09/24/Resources/Column.Staffieri.Provides.Inspiration-2165891.shtml
We must not lose sight of our rich history.
Note that this was written back in 99, when Zach, Noah, and David(Ben) were barely out of elementary school.
September 21st, 2009 at 8:50 pm
I think it was past his bed time.
September 22nd, 2009 at 5:13 pm
Zach:
Were you or Noah or David (Ben) able to confirm if Coach Lake
was present for the Nova game?
Might be worth asking tomorrow at the media event.
Best,
FOJL